Hyundai does indeed make very nice vehicles. Adam is a bit over-enthusiastic at the moment.
How reliable are they over the first 5 years? What is their resale value? What is the cost of normal maintenance assuming 25,000 miles per year?
Compare with similar models from Toyota and Honda and get back to us.
For PCs, initial purchase price is only 17% of TCO (Total Cost of Ownership). I think it may be similar with well-made vehicles; but we need facts, not hype.
Who has the numbers and will share?
ChickenHead
28 days ago
Korean cars are certainly within the top quality spots for both the long and short term¹. They have great warranties, a reputation for a above-average interiors, and slightly-above-mediocre styling that has defined the last 20 years of car design… all with a reasonable price.
This has actually been the case for quite a while.
¹BMW, for example, is designed to work well for a calculated number of time/cycles and then break… several German products I have are designed this way and I can explain how it works to non-technical people… semiconductors use the same theory of intended obsolescence… TLDR: precision calculated weak links in an otherwise robust chain of operation
Planned failure was the only manufacturing tip the Germans leatned from the Soviets.
ChickenHead
27 days ago
“Planned failure was the only manufacturing tip the Germans leatned from the Soviets.”
Planned social failure is a communist tactic to ensure people don’t focus too much on communism. Sometimes, this included agricultural failure.
But Russian technics is designed NOT to fail.
Russian engineering is brutal and lacks the elegance of Japanese engineering or the beauty (and dysfunction) of Italian engineering…
…but it is simple, functional, and built to do what it claims.
Failure of Soviet technics was not planned. When it failed, it was due to politics or the realities of labor with no incentive.
The current failure of American technics, from the car companies to Boeing, are all based on perverse incentives, government involvement, and unrealistic social fads.
setnaffa
27 days ago
CH, the Soviets built their tank to survive just longer than the expected survival in combat. And built them in large quantities. They believed they could not match German (or American) engineering, so they built crap, but lots of it.
The Germans overengineered their tanks and couldn’t supply them with parts. So the Soviets won a lot of battles with logistics.
Unfortunately, post-WW2, the Germans only learned to build mass quantities of crap, learning the wrong lesson in manufacturing and software too
ChickenHead
27 days ago
“Planned failure was the only manufacturing tip the Germans leatned from the Soviets.”
We have miscommunicated.
By “planned failure”, I mean intentionally engineering a limited functional time with the purpose of selling repair or replacement. I have found intentionally peecision engineered weak spots in several German products I own.
(The solution is to machine a correctly-designed replacement with a thicker piece of metal/plastic)
The Soviets may well have calculated a cost/benefit ratio based on the expected battlefield life of a tank to determine a quality/quantity tradeoff, but these are not the same things.
setnaffa
27 days ago
CH, planning for more sales would be intelligent. I don’t really credit them with that.
Hyundai does indeed make very nice vehicles. Adam is a bit over-enthusiastic at the moment.
How reliable are they over the first 5 years? What is their resale value? What is the cost of normal maintenance assuming 25,000 miles per year?
Compare with similar models from Toyota and Honda and get back to us.
For PCs, initial purchase price is only 17% of TCO (Total Cost of Ownership). I think it may be similar with well-made vehicles; but we need facts, not hype.
Who has the numbers and will share?
Korean cars are certainly within the top quality spots for both the long and short term¹. They have great warranties, a reputation for a above-average interiors, and slightly-above-mediocre styling that has defined the last 20 years of car design… all with a reasonable price.
This has actually been the case for quite a while.
¹BMW, for example, is designed to work well for a calculated number of time/cycles and then break… several German products I have are designed this way and I can explain how it works to non-technical people… semiconductors use the same theory of intended obsolescence… TLDR: precision calculated weak links in an otherwise robust chain of operation
But this is old news.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel
Planned failure was the only manufacturing tip the Germans leatned from the Soviets.
“Planned failure was the only manufacturing tip the Germans leatned from the Soviets.”
Planned social failure is a communist tactic to ensure people don’t focus too much on communism. Sometimes, this included agricultural failure.
But Russian technics is designed NOT to fail.
Russian engineering is brutal and lacks the elegance of Japanese engineering or the beauty (and dysfunction) of Italian engineering…
…but it is simple, functional, and built to do what it claims.
Failure of Soviet technics was not planned. When it failed, it was due to politics or the realities of labor with no incentive.
The current failure of American technics, from the car companies to Boeing, are all based on perverse incentives, government involvement, and unrealistic social fads.
CH, the Soviets built their tank to survive just longer than the expected survival in combat. And built them in large quantities. They believed they could not match German (or American) engineering, so they built crap, but lots of it.
The Germans overengineered their tanks and couldn’t supply them with parts. So the Soviets won a lot of battles with logistics.
Unfortunately, post-WW2, the Germans only learned to build mass quantities of crap, learning the wrong lesson in manufacturing and software too
“Planned failure was the only manufacturing tip the Germans leatned from the Soviets.”
We have miscommunicated.
By “planned failure”, I mean intentionally engineering a limited functional time with the purpose of selling repair or replacement. I have found intentionally peecision engineered weak spots in several German products I own.
(The solution is to machine a correctly-designed replacement with a thicker piece of metal/plastic)
The Soviets may well have calculated a cost/benefit ratio based on the expected battlefield life of a tank to determine a quality/quantity tradeoff, but these are not the same things.
CH, planning for more sales would be intelligent. I don’t really credit them with that.
Western progressives don’t think that far ahead.