"I was In Love"
Remember the Osan airman that went AWOL to only have his girlfriend from the ville turn him in? Well he is back and in trouble again:
An airman was sentenced Monday to one year in jail and given a bad-conduct discharge for using three other airmen’s Social Security numbers to take out more than $14,600 in loans last year.
Airman Basic Christopher R. Neal, 23, pleaded guilty to taking the Social Security numbers from papers in the 51st Communications Squadron office, where he worked as a maintenance technician. He filled out online applications and received three loans from Pioneer Military Lending between March and July 2006.
So why did our troubled airman commit such crimes? If only I had a dollar for every time I heard this excuse:
Neal, who was court-martialed late last year for being absent without leave, repeatedly told judge Lt. Col. John Hartsell on Monday that he was not thinking clearly when he got the loans.
“I was in love. I thought I was doing something to help my fiancee,” he said. “Not only did I end up hurting her, but I ended up here today, sir.”
The judge also ordered Neal to forfeit $867 of his monthly pay for the next 12 months.
So where did the money go? You guessed it, straight to juicy:
Neal said he spent the loans — two of $6,000 each, and one for $2,690 — on groceries, rent and paying off some of his fiancee’s debts. He said it was easy to get the Social Security numbers, all from people who worked in his office.
Wait there is more:
He told Hartsell he wanted to show he could be a good husband to his fiancee, who has remained with him throughout his courts-martial and first imprisonment.
“She was the best thing that ever happened to me,” he said. “I used this money to help her start a new life, a new life for the both of us.”
We’ll see if she is still with him after a year in jail and no money coming in. Unfortunately these stories are all to common in USFK and a by product of the ville culture that exists there. The girls in the ville are like a drug and servicemembers like Airman Neal that get addicted to them will do things such as theft and fraud in order to feed their drinky girl habbit.
I wonder if that's because ajumma is still sitting on her passport until she works off her indenture?
Here is an idea, not a "PC" idea, but none the less still a solution to the problem of the lonely troop.
Ready? Lets legalize prostitution and take the stigma away. Oh, and let Ajuma run the thing. Wait, does that sounds familiar? Why yes it does!
That was the way it worked before the "PC" police arrived. Troops were not "falling in love" back then. They were getting a nut, at a good price, whenever they wanted. The girls had a "VD" card. Issued by the Command to protect the Troops. WOW! The Command knew how to lead back then. No "pogie" leadership.
Anybody remember the "Steam and Cream"? HaHa, troops wanted to get a haircut!
My first day in Korea I worked from 0600 to 1800, ate with my new Squad Leader, and then "select" members of the Platoon took me down range to the Top Hat Club, pointed out my Platoon Sergeant setting at his table, and made sure I had a smile on my face before we left.
Bottom line: I was not lonely, I was not in love, but I was satisfied and happy.
I don't know what to do about lonely Married guys. But getting married is an option not an order, so I don't care. They got over plenty Stateside.
Korea: the best kept secret in the Army. THEN, not now. Glad I didn't miss out. I worked hard and I played hard and I would do it all over again, THEN not now!
[…] [GI Korea] "I was In Love" Published: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 08:04:31 +0000 Remember the Osan airman that went AWOL to only have his girlfriend from the ville turn him in??* Well he is back and in trouble again: An airman was sentenced Monday to one year in jail and given a bad-conduct discharge for using three other airmen’s Social Security numbers to take out more than $14,600 in […] Read More… […]
Dan,
The problem is Korea is no longer the Korea of the steam and cream days due to the economic development thus causing the need to import sex workers. The human trafficking is what got the US media to run stories about prostitution outside of USFK camps.
I have long advocated that any club with third country nationals should be off limits. That would greatly reduce the "I was in Love" problems as well as avoiding any human trafficking concerns if the club was staffed with nothing but Koreans. Additionally these clubs that serve alcohol should be off limits to underage soldiers. That would help limit the number of younger and more guilable soldiers from hanging out with the juicies as well as limiting the number of soldiers getting hemmed up for underage drinking down range.
GI,
Your suggestions are right on the money. You should be a general.
Keep in mind, Korea has not changed THAT much, though. A couple blocks away from Osan's main gate are both a Steam & Cream and a Rub & Tug.
While it is still possible to barfine some skank out of a GI juicy bar starting at $150 on a non-payday weekday, the S&C/R&T offer some rather cute and nice mannered young Korean girls who supply the full treatment for around $100.
And don't forget short time at the glass houses for $75ish?
The difference is the juicy racket is protected and the glass houses are actively patrolled.
J!
CH,
I don't know if you are being sarcastic or not but I have many ideas to reform the ville culture and removing 3rd country nationals are on the top of the list.
I understand there is still plenty of Korean prostitution places that remain but not in GI villes because Korean prostitutes are to expensive for the ville club owners, that is why they bring in the third country nationals. Removing the third country nationals would cause the club owners to greatly change their business models in the ville.
GI,
I was being truthful… you have many good ideas.
My history of posting has always advocated stopping the relationship-forming juicing with trafficked or exploited women… and allowing the free market to decide.
Prostitution is going to exist… even in Iraq.
The question is, do you want it with willing participants who want to make money or do you want it with exploited and trafficked women who are forced or semi-forced while the pimps (read: club owners) make all the mad cash.
The question is, GI, why doesn't leadership see what you see?
J!
[…] “I was In Love” […]
Just a note to CH on prostitution in Iraq; How does $45.00 haircuts from American GI females sound? I shaved my head, so was out of luck, but it was common knowledge in 2005 at Taji.
GI, I also agree that things have changed in Korea. No Korean Working Girl would allow herself to live the way the third party nationals live. Thus I agree that any club that employs them should be OFF LIMITS. Just as Thousand won alley is OFF LIMITS.
The Command knows how to do it. I would love to hear the reason why they don't!
CH, think any money is changing hands here? You seem to always know the dirt, and don't seem to be infected with the PC virus. Any thoughts?
I think the command turns a blind eye to the 3rd Country Nationals because they make the club owners a lot of money and if they cut them off then the club owners could retaliate by bringing in anti-US protesters to delay things like the Camp Humphreys relocation. I think when the USFK transformation is complete that would be a perfect time to reform the ville culture as well. With the transformation still in the air the command probably doesn't want to ruffle the feather of their biggest supporters, the people in the ville.
If the ville culture remains even after the transformation than you really have to wonder what is going on.
As far as prostitution in Iraq, the FOB I was on had some girls from the ASB busted for it. Even the Iraqis had prostitution racket going on. In Tikrit there was an apartment building not to far from the palace where the locals said a Kurdish man was running a prostitution business. A local Iraqi buddy of mine was asking why the US soldiers didn't go there? I told him we would get court martialed if we did. He couldn't comprehend we could stay in Iraq for a year without a woman. Heck I can remember in Baghdad a woman that were dressed like prostitutes on the street even. It was a bit surreal when we saw that.
Dan,
I agree totally with your view. I, too, was in Korea during its glory days and was also around for the beginning and middle of its decline before, during and after the 1988 Olympics in Seoul.
GIKorea,
You said "The human trafficking is what got the US media to run stories about prostitution outside of USFK camps."
Guess what? Human trafficking has been going on for the clubs as long as there have been clubs. The owners of the clubs used to put ads in magazines they knew that young girls looking for work read. These were poorer farm girls from the provinces. They were promised jobs as 'entertainers' in American clubs near the Army bases. Sound familiar? When this did not work they resorted to wholesale kidnapping of girls off the street. They would indenture them by playing on their Confucian beliefs of loyalty to elders and a healthy dose of guilt as the girls were brought in and told they owed the owners money for having let them spend the night. Those debts never got repaid because of the sometimes 100% interest compounded daily that the adjumas charged.
I also agree with Dan that the commands need to take more responsibility at the NCO level for their troops. Back in the day, like Dan said, you worked hard and you partied hard. There was a spirit of unity back then that just doesn't exist in today's military in Korea. I blame it on the change in the culture in the U.S. from a unit-centric to a self-centric attitude. That is the sad part of this story for sure and that in itself is what is causing all the problems you see today. IMHO.
I know there was plenty of human trafficking back in the day, but right now the primary human trafficking is in TCN's, primarily Filipinas. The club owners today cannot coopt or kidnap on a large scale enough Koreans to work in USFK clubs if USFK put clubs off limits that use TCNs. The club owners would have to change their business models thus changing the ville culture entirely.
Koreans have asked me before why GIs treat Korea like it is some kind of 3rd world country. I always respond because outside the gates of just about every USFK camp is a ville that is a 3rd world country. Changing the club owners business models would change the ville culture and thus change attitudes as well.
Everyone can wish all they want that the ville can go back to what it was 20 years ago but it will never happen with the increased media attention put on USFK. 20 years ago nobody knew what was going on in Korea. Now even the smallest GI incidents make headlines. You can't tell me that 20 years ago there wasn't drunken fist fights and other stupid crap going on. Back then though these incidents did not make headlines.
Can you imagine the headlines if USFK allowed servicemembers to go to a steam and cream outside one of the camps even though Koreans use steam and cream all the time.
GIKorea,
You make a lot of valid points but the underlying thread that makes this all so sad is the sensationalistic journalism that goes on. CNN (which I call the Communist News Network now for their flagrant left spin on every story) had a bureau in Seoul as early as the 1986 Asian Games in Seoul and I'll wager that many a CNN reporter enjoyed the 'culture' once or twice during their posting to CNN Seoul. Back then we had Iran-Contra and other media ciruses to keep us enthralled but with an ever more hungry American viewing public and the trash TV that has been spawned in the 90's and into today, the public's urge and lusting for anything dirty or sensational has been fed to a level of feeding frenzy. In the midst of all this, no one has ever done a story on the positive side of GI's meeting juicy girls. There's a lot of Korean families now living in the U.S. that would not be there were it not for the generousity of U.S. servicemen married to Korean women over the past 50 some odd years.
Now, what to do about TCN's as you call them. If they all disappeared tomorrow would that stop any human trafficking? Nope, prices would go up in all the GI bars but the owners would find a way to fill them with either Korean girls who have no better future, or they would morph and adapt in some way to allow prostitution to flourish. They don't call it the world's oldest profession for nothing you know.
Also, if you are going to punish the GI for frequenting these places, the Korean government should be made to clean up these areas and prosecute those responsible for providing the service. No service, no problems for USFK.
Barring all this, the ultimate way to clean up this problem is the R word, REDEPLOYMENT. We no longer need to protect the ROK from the DPRK. Let them spend some of the economic largess on their own defense for a change.
Okay, I'm rambling and probably far off topic now so I'll stop on this subject. Thanks for reading.
GI, just a short adjustment, I hope.
The ville of twenty years ago had plenty of fights and drunks. I spent some time in the later group. Fights were gi on gi. They were taken care of at the lowest level. Squad Leaders had power, knew there troops, partied with them, protected and punished them as to there need. He was one of them but above them. Sadly that is long gone also.
Rape. What the hell would you do that for. You have at least ten bars with at least that many nice looking Korean women. A night out could be had for $50 bucks including the female.
I know how crude this sounds in the PC world of today but—
I know that isn't coming back, and believe it or not, I think thats a good thing. I knew some Korean Farm girls that were working off their bill, or a loan to their parents to put their brother through college. For those that don't know, it was the Ajuma that was running the business. So, GI, I do not wish for THAT to come back.But there is much in the Army than, that worked. Need that back.
But the ville. While we wait for the transfer coming, the troops there now are at best waisting there time and at worst, being used, falling in love, being beaten by American Hateing Koreans (AHK'S).
I read your site almost daily and I seldom read anything that suggest the Command is doing anything but CYB operations. Nothing really knew about that, but at least in my time they didn't go out of their way to do it. They still believed that they were Soldiers in charge of Soldiers.
In Honduras in 87 the CO and Top took their showers in the Shower Tent with the Troops. Compair that to Taji Iraq 2005 where the CO and Top had "WET-TRAILERS" and the SMG had a string of GI females.
I'll take the ville of the past, when the command went down range with the troops, and for the same reason, rather than the corruption I saw in my later years.
Solution is simple.
Make prostitution legal and regulate it.
AND-MOST-IMPORTANT
DO NOT let the soldiers marry the Filipina whores. If they knew they weren't getting a golden ticket to the States by playing these boys, they would just honestly sell their services to make their money.
I understand why leadership turns a blind eye to the prostitution–the soldiers need the release. But why oh why do they let the soldiers marry the prostitutes?
Here is a novel thought…work with all city govt and just close down the juicy bars…period. You all are living in the past if you think prostitution will be legal. IDIOTS will stand in front of a camera and say anything. Point in case…FOX NEWS dateline Seoul, an officer LT from PA talks about the WON and getting some. What a jackass. The good ole days are gone and you all need to get a grip. Leadership isnt worried about anything other than making that next rank. Close the ville…problem solved. Then they can just make friends and date like in the states instead of BUYING LOVE.
OBTW…Soldier in Pyongteak over the weekend, aged 21/22 robbed a 7-11ish store…was he A) Drunk B) Bored C)Needing to feed his Juicy or D) All of the above.
How about a warrior pass to keep the jackasses on post. Too many soldiers in diapers on the loose in the ville…wooo woooo I am da man…
The general consensus seems to be:
1. Make prostitution legal. 😮
2. Place ANY bar with TCNs OFF-LIMITS 💡
3. Refuse to allow marriage of a U.S. sodier to any TCN bar worker while in Korea. 😯
Are you listening US Army Brass??? ❓
April — What if marrying a prostitute is exciting to the soldier? What if it's his fantasy? (Captain Save-a-Ho…)
You espouse an odd combination of legalize-and-regulate libertarianism and nannyism.
Brendon,
Remind me NOT to hire you as you can not get a visa for you wife if she was a prostitute. The bar exam was a bottle of Jack Daniels for you ❓
Brendon-it isn't that weird at all.
Prostitution SHOULD be legal. By regulate it I mean if there are going to be "approved" places, the girls should be health tested, etc.-similar to the brothels in Nevada.
BUT
USFK should not endorse or subsidize marriages to or immigration of prostitutes.
They serve a real purpose but the current situation leads to confusion, misunderstanding, and waste of time and money.
IF once prositution was legal and a soldier wanted to marry a girl who was openly a prostitute, it should be on the couples own dollar with NO help from the military. And the military should not allow it while the soldier is serving here. If the idiot wants to marry a whore, let him figure a way to get her to the states and THEN marry her. Of course, once she realized he had gotten her to the states and she didn't even have to marry him, he'd likely not hear from her again.
IMHO, there's only 2 choices here.
Close the clubs
or make Prostitution legal
Either way it's going to be up to the Korean government to decide.
The club owners want the business and if the girls were regulated, then the chance of catching a STD will be greatly reduced.
I find it interesting the airman's juicy girl turned him in. However, since she's in a win/win situation, she likely couldn't care less. Her ticket is still punched for the states or if not, her bar bill is paid off.
Kids….
I don't think that prostitute is a "good" job for any woman. Neither is coal miner for any man. I would hope that due to my own blessed circumstances, my daughter would not have to become a prostitute, and my son — if I had one — would not have to become a coal miner. Were someone to kidnap my child to impress them into any sort of labor, I would hunt the kidnapper down and beat him to death.
If my daughter were to choose to be a prostitute, abandoning better choices, I would be heartbroken. Same would go for my son, if I had one and he were to head off to the coal mine.
However, if, God forbid, I were killed today and left my children penniless, or my children weren't all that smart, such that prostitution became the best option in her judgment, it seems evil for a society to deny a woman the right to earn a living.
I'm with Tim that the only way to fix the problem is to remove the soldiers from Korea. There are good reasons to keep troops in Korea, I just don't find them all that compelling given the other military challenges to budget.
But I gotta tell you Tim, as to whether the CNN reporter ever enjoyed the culture, you're wrong on this one. I knew the CNN reporter who covered Seoul in the late 80's and we are still good friends. I even had dinner with HER the other night and although SHE enjoyed the culture , I don't think SHE ever "enjoyed" the "culture" so to speak.
That said, I almost feel sorry for GI who is always trying to lift the level of discussion to policy issues and history and few respond but he tosses out something on prostitution and the "experts" all weigh in.
OK, one good story related to the original post and what a GI will do for "love." I had a GI in Sonyuri that we could not keep away from his juicy no matter what we did, how we restricted them and how guarded him. We nicknamed him Houdini because he always found a way to disappear into thin air and get to the ville. We had a serious fence around the compound that was actively patrolled and the guys on the gate had his picture and were on alert to keepand hook up with his girl despite every attempt to restrict him to camp. "I can't help it" he'd tell the 1SG, "I gotta be with my girl."
Then early one morning someone spotted a head pop up out of a drain sewer grate. Out popped our very filthy Houdini. He had literally been crawling each night out and each morning back through an 18 inch storm water drainage pipe, over 250 feet in length to the where it emptied into the creek and then he would low crawl along the creek bed to juicy's place in the ville where she must have given him a quick bath because he would have smelled like crap – really.
When we caught him and surveyed the amazing route he would have had to take, no one really wanted to hammer him because he was really a great soldier when you got him to the field and on some levels you have to admire a guy who is so "mission oriented." And frankly, it really is guys like Houdini that made the Army fun – 250 feet though an 18" wide pipe, crawling on his belly without fear of snakes or rats all to get to his girl and get some. Hooah.
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Just read my last post and noticed that an edit I made for some unexplainable rreason didn't take. The confusing sentence in the 4th paragraph should read that guards… were on alert to keep (Houdini from leaving the camp but somehow Houdini would find a way out) and hook up with his girl despite every attempt to restrict him to camp.
Sorry about that.
Fact of the matter is the military cannot stop you from getting married. That's why Commanders and 1SG's don't put a stop to it. He/she will go thru the military or go the civilian route. If everything is straight and legal, IAW Army regs. he/she is your spouse. They get all the "Benefits"
the Army says they are allowed.
You'd be surprised at how things work out.
Well, my first trip to South Korea was 1979. I spent almost ten years there on three different assignemtns. I enjoyed it. Go down range and spend the night for a bottle of Jim Beam. Give the club owner $50 and you could stay the entire weekend. But, it appears to me those days are no more. We were happy, worked hard, knowing we could relieve the pressure with social drinking with our comrades and then leave with a smile on your face and money in your pocket. Seems now, it's a major purchase to just relieve the tension of the day or field exercise.
One comment about the fella in 'I Was In Love'..Idiot!
What is the world were you thinking?
And where were his buddies and NCOIC/Commander. Looks like there was no leadership involved. One of the things I did as an NCOIC, was to make dang sure my soldiers KNEW how things really are down range. I never lost a single one to stupidity like this.
Surely, someone took this kid aside and told him how things "REALLY ARE" down range. There ain't no lovin' down range, it's all about the money.
Obviously not, my friend. My first tour was in 1979. I spent almost 10 years on three assignments in South Korea. It was a problem then and appears nothing has changed since then.
Bring those young troops to the Land of the Morning Calm and that's trouble. Where's the result of 'Learning From Past Mistakes?'
Not to be misunderstood, I loved my tours there. I was stationed in numerous bases and, for the most part, loved them all. But, I tried to help those 'Turtles' not make the mistakes I saw others make.
Buddy, there were a few of those on Yongsan. It was commonplace back then, if didn't know. I can still remember every single one. Why, because it was difficult to find a time when it wasn't FULL of officers and senior NCOs. 😯