Trump betraying the Kurds really is getting noticed by US allies. Like the generally pro-US conservative Chosun Ilbo. I'm teaching a Korean language course for the first time in years and I was looking for good examples of the Korean expression "남의 일."+https://t.co/hUdGiW11JRpic.twitter.com/negdrNAeqJ
This Chosun Ilbo editorial isn't translated into English yet but its the kind of "look at what they did to the Kurds what does that mean for us?" other US allies are expressing worry about. https://t.co/hUdGiW11JR
It means Korea and USFK must be grateful that it’s 5 Chinese mechanized infantry divisions on the Yalu rather than Putin’s troops.
Putin captured southern Ukraine (Crimea) and large parts of eastern Ukraine and can now serenade his troops across the Black Sea through the Bosporus and onto his Mediterranean port in Syria.
The southern most city in all of Russia is Vladivostok. For Putin to get to Busan he’ll either have to march through Heilongjiang Province or sail across the East Sea … between the ROKN and the JMSDF … and the USN.
From a practical (short-term) point of view, Putin is not in strong position. From a longer term perspective being outmaneuvered by Putin on support for long-term allies is damaging to morale and the long term interests of the USA.
To paraphrase Lord Palmerston: “(The USA has) no permanent friends or allies, (it) only (has) permanent interests.”
Then what is the permanent interest? Claiming that it’s fake news that Putin is trying to frag western alliances?
The USA didn’t betray the Kurds. America works with them from time to time but has no obligation to baby them.
First, not all Kurds are equal… there are several populations of them… and, while they maintain slightly different values and goals, they are all just as devious and conniving as anyone else in the region. They deserve no special love.
The ones in Syria are the worst… as they are also proud commies and terrorists… not a huge overlap with American goals, values, or interests.
They are in no way American “allies”… ergo, they cannot be betrayed. For some time, both they and America had narrow shared interests in another matter (ISIS)… and when that issue was resolved, America walked away… as it should have.
(Amazing to see the Trump Derangement Syndrome so strong that the liberal left is now the warmonger party and Trump is a weak betrayer for pulling out troops from unwinnable wars with undefined victories.)
Other populations of Kurds have experienced the same thing… working together with shared interests and then parting ways when those interests are no longer shared.
The Kurds are happy for the support… and they know it is a limited time offer when it begins.
As for Turkey and Syrian Kurds fighting it out, can they both lose?
Cross your fingers!
setnaffa
6 years ago
There’s this thing called NATO. Maybe Stephen and Oranckey have never heard of it.
And the Kurds (some of whom are our friends) have been fighting the Turks (our allies by Treaty) for hundreds of years.
It’s not difficult for adults to decifer.
And the President only moved 25-50 troops.
Frankly, this whole thing is another NeverTrump effort to discredit the nest President we’re had during my lifetime.
Note the common factors: Warm water ports (Tartus, Busan), harmless neighbor (Putin, Putin).
charliem
6 years ago
So now the US should fight against Assad as a way to deter Russia? This reasoning truly never ends.
This is part of a fundamental rethinking of US interests. South Korea knows how to play the diplomatic game, so it is instructive to see them buying weapons and maybe making moves to reduce the anti-Japan propaganda. But Moon’s govt is ideological, so it’s not clear how much they perceive reality.
Stephen
6 years ago
South Korea knows how to play the diplomatic game
South Korea remembers when it got played: Katsura-Tafuto Kyōtei …
Fortunately, Harry and Ike weren’t Taft but …
setnaffa
6 years ago
Stephen wants the US to stick our nose in somebody else’s fight and start shipping American youth into another Muslim civil war. As if Iraq and Afghanistan weren’t enough.
It’s okay. He’s entitled to his opinion (although his constant “Putin, Putin, Putin” chorus makes some believe he was very disappointed in the Mueller Report).
Trump is trying to get us out of the World Cop business.
2ID Doc
6 years ago
The Syrian withdrawal means nothing. The US and the ROK have a long standing mutual defense treaty. The Koreans went to Vietnam, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Afghanistan while the USFK has stayed steady in the ROK. I disagree with the SF advisors leaving the Kurds (it was the only thing stopping Ergodan from attacking, killing NATO members would be bad press) but the Koreans have nothing to worry about. The US military has been on the peninsula for 70+ years, I don’t see that changing unless commie moon pie tosses out the USFK.
Stephen
6 years ago
Stephen wants the US to stick our nose in somebody else’s fight …
I’m just answering the question: WHAT DOES SYRIA WITHDRAWAL MEAN FOR USFK?
The “Putin, Putin, Putin” chorus?
Anyone who leaves lovely Vlad off their risk management plan in South Korea …
J6Junkie
6 years ago
I would be more worried about Emperor Xi coming for the Korean Peninsula than Putin.
ChickenHead
6 years ago
Not trying to be droll or undroll… nor was I even commenting on Kurds and USFK… of which I have put zero though into.
I was commenting on the often-repeated “betrayed the Kurds”… which I do not believe to be the case… and I am suspect of any article that starts with that statement.
America supports the Kurds when interests align. The Kurds welcome American assistance for their own goals whenever they can pilfer it. America promises no long-term alliance and the Kurds do not expect it. Everybody knows the deal going into the relationship.
Other than that, the Kurds are just as scumbaggy as everyone else in the region and have goals and values so opposed to American thinking that they can not be true long-term ideological allies. Fewer Kurds will not be a problem… especially the commie-Islamic type. They are simply useful to fund and equip to hassle whomever is America’s regional enemies for the decade.
But to put a bit of thought into it… what does “betraying the Kurds mean for USFK”? Nothing. Just like last 7 times the Kurds were “betrayed” since the Korean war.
Let Turkey, Kurds, Syrians, Saudis, Iranian proxies, etc fight it out… preferably to the death.
The only concern is those pesky NATO treaties with Turkey… as that is the gateway to WW4.
Turkey may wind up being the one wisely betrayed.
Liz
6 years ago
The Russians have had a Navy base in Syria since the Warsaw Pact years.
The US has had bases in the ROK since the Warsaw Pact years.
So….what’s the question again?
It’s about Russia now, Stephen? At first it was about Assad, then ISIS, now the Kurds…now there’s a new strategy where we purposely face off the Russians? You must be in the know.
I do know a pilot who was almost shot down over Syria. They thought he was an Israeli. If one radio not worky we’d be inching up to WWIII.
Great idea, Stephen! You must be related to Dumsfeld.
Side note about “Kurd abandonment”. Our forces were stationed in Saudi for almost a decade to man the no-fly-zones established there for the purpose of defending the Kurds. It’s probably the reason for 911.
Setnaffa, pretty much every person I knew who was deployed there again and again for years (my husband among them, spend many many months out in Tent City eating skosor…some kind of sh*t on rice) said, “This isn’t going to end well”.
They all knew. Except high level leadership.
Expecting high level leadership to advocate troop removal anywhere is kind of like expecting the Secretary of the Airforce to say, “You know what, we have enough funding….give the Army more this year, they really need it”. Just doesn’t happen.
setnaffa
6 years ago
Well, 1991 is when they removed gunners from B-52s, so don’t expect me to defend ’em for making silly mistakes… 🙂
It means nothing, South Korea is not Syria, North Korea is not Turkey. Trying to mirror the two is a weak cover for what appears to be typical Trump bashing.
As for abandoning the Kurds, didn’t we help them gain independence and form Kurdistan? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan
Oh wait, that’s not a real country it’s some BS region encroaching on 4 separate countries.
How long do we have to support their failed effort to form their own country?
ChickenHead
6 years ago
The problem could be solved by releasing Little Miss Muffet.
Liz
6 years ago
Thanks CH, I needed that. LOL 😆
(cool mug, Setnaffa!)
Stephen
6 years ago
Trying to mirror the two is a weak cover for what appears to be typical Trump bashing.
Putin pulling his punches.
Abū Bakr al-Baghdadi: Please Mr. Putin, let my people go …
What does Syria withdrawal mean for USFK?
It means Korea and USFK must be grateful that it’s 5 Chinese mechanized infantry divisions on the Yalu rather than Putin’s troops.
Putin captured southern Ukraine (Crimea) and large parts of eastern Ukraine and can now serenade his troops across the Black Sea through the Bosporus and onto his Mediterranean port in Syria.
The southern most city in all of Russia is Vladivostok. For Putin to get to Busan he’ll either have to march through Heilongjiang Province or sail across the East Sea … between the ROKN and the JMSDF … and the USN.
From a practical (short-term) point of view, Putin is not in strong position. From a longer term perspective being outmaneuvered by Putin on support for long-term allies is damaging to morale and the long term interests of the USA.
To paraphrase Lord Palmerston: “(The USA has) no permanent friends or allies, (it) only (has) permanent interests.”
Then what is the permanent interest? Claiming that it’s fake news that Putin is trying to frag western alliances?
Top Secret Russian Unit Seeks to Destabilize Europe …
The USA didn’t betray the Kurds. America works with them from time to time but has no obligation to baby them.
First, not all Kurds are equal… there are several populations of them… and, while they maintain slightly different values and goals, they are all just as devious and conniving as anyone else in the region. They deserve no special love.
The ones in Syria are the worst… as they are also proud commies and terrorists… not a huge overlap with American goals, values, or interests.
They are in no way American “allies”… ergo, they cannot be betrayed. For some time, both they and America had narrow shared interests in another matter (ISIS)… and when that issue was resolved, America walked away… as it should have.
(Amazing to see the Trump Derangement Syndrome so strong that the liberal left is now the warmonger party and Trump is a weak betrayer for pulling out troops from unwinnable wars with undefined victories.)
Other populations of Kurds have experienced the same thing… working together with shared interests and then parting ways when those interests are no longer shared.
The Kurds are happy for the support… and they know it is a limited time offer when it begins.
As for Turkey and Syrian Kurds fighting it out, can they both lose?
Cross your fingers!
There’s this thing called NATO. Maybe Stephen and Oranckey have never heard of it.
And the Kurds (some of whom are our friends) have been fighting the Turks (our allies by Treaty) for hundreds of years.
It’s not difficult for adults to decifer.
And the President only moved 25-50 troops.
Frankly, this whole thing is another NeverTrump effort to discredit the nest President we’re had during my lifetime.
Very droll CH.
You didn’t answer the question.
WHAT DOES SYRIA WITHDRAWAL MEAN FOR USFK?
4 Syrian hospitals bombed. One culprit: Russia
Note the common factors: Warm water ports (Tartus, Busan), harmless neighbor (Putin, Putin).
So now the US should fight against Assad as a way to deter Russia? This reasoning truly never ends.
This is part of a fundamental rethinking of US interests. South Korea knows how to play the diplomatic game, so it is instructive to see them buying weapons and maybe making moves to reduce the anti-Japan propaganda. But Moon’s govt is ideological, so it’s not clear how much they perceive reality.
South Korea knows how to play the diplomatic game
South Korea remembers when it got played: Katsura-Tafuto Kyōtei …
Fortunately, Harry and Ike weren’t Taft but …
Stephen wants the US to stick our nose in somebody else’s fight and start shipping American youth into another Muslim civil war. As if Iraq and Afghanistan weren’t enough.
It’s okay. He’s entitled to his opinion (although his constant “Putin, Putin, Putin” chorus makes some believe he was very disappointed in the Mueller Report).
Trump is trying to get us out of the World Cop business.
The Syrian withdrawal means nothing. The US and the ROK have a long standing mutual defense treaty. The Koreans went to Vietnam, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Afghanistan while the USFK has stayed steady in the ROK. I disagree with the SF advisors leaving the Kurds (it was the only thing stopping Ergodan from attacking, killing NATO members would be bad press) but the Koreans have nothing to worry about. The US military has been on the peninsula for 70+ years, I don’t see that changing unless commie moon pie tosses out the USFK.
Stephen wants the US to stick our nose in somebody else’s fight …
I’m just answering the question: WHAT DOES SYRIA WITHDRAWAL MEAN FOR USFK?
The “Putin, Putin, Putin” chorus?
Anyone who leaves lovely Vlad off their risk management plan in South Korea …
I would be more worried about Emperor Xi coming for the Korean Peninsula than Putin.
Not trying to be droll or undroll… nor was I even commenting on Kurds and USFK… of which I have put zero though into.
I was commenting on the often-repeated “betrayed the Kurds”… which I do not believe to be the case… and I am suspect of any article that starts with that statement.
America supports the Kurds when interests align. The Kurds welcome American assistance for their own goals whenever they can pilfer it. America promises no long-term alliance and the Kurds do not expect it. Everybody knows the deal going into the relationship.
Other than that, the Kurds are just as scumbaggy as everyone else in the region and have goals and values so opposed to American thinking that they can not be true long-term ideological allies. Fewer Kurds will not be a problem… especially the commie-Islamic type. They are simply useful to fund and equip to hassle whomever is America’s regional enemies for the decade.
But to put a bit of thought into it… what does “betraying the Kurds mean for USFK”? Nothing. Just like last 7 times the Kurds were “betrayed” since the Korean war.
Let Turkey, Kurds, Syrians, Saudis, Iranian proxies, etc fight it out… preferably to the death.
The only concern is those pesky NATO treaties with Turkey… as that is the gateway to WW4.
Turkey may wind up being the one wisely betrayed.
The Russians have had a Navy base in Syria since the Warsaw Pact years.
The US has had bases in the ROK since the Warsaw Pact years.
So….what’s the question again?
It’s about Russia now, Stephen? At first it was about Assad, then ISIS, now the Kurds…now there’s a new strategy where we purposely face off the Russians? You must be in the know.
I do know a pilot who was almost shot down over Syria. They thought he was an Israeli. If one radio not worky we’d be inching up to WWIII.
Great idea, Stephen! You must be related to Dumsfeld.
Side note about “Kurd abandonment”. Our forces were stationed in Saudi for almost a decade to man the no-fly-zones established there for the purpose of defending the Kurds. It’s probably the reason for 911.
Liz wrote: “It’s probably the reason for 911.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motives_for_the_September_11_attacks#Presence_of_US_military_in_Saudi_Arabia
Setnaffa, pretty much every person I knew who was deployed there again and again for years (my husband among them, spend many many months out in Tent City eating skosor…some kind of sh*t on rice) said, “This isn’t going to end well”.
They all knew. Except high level leadership.
Expecting high level leadership to advocate troop removal anywhere is kind of like expecting the Secretary of the Airforce to say, “You know what, we have enough funding….give the Army more this year, they really need it”. Just doesn’t happen.
Well, 1991 is when they removed gunners from B-52s, so don’t expect me to defend ’em for making silly mistakes… 🙂
A friend had some mugs made to celebrate our old job:
https://imgflip.com/i/3d8miu
It means nothing, South Korea is not Syria, North Korea is not Turkey. Trying to mirror the two is a weak cover for what appears to be typical Trump bashing.
As for abandoning the Kurds, didn’t we help them gain independence and form Kurdistan?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan
Oh wait, that’s not a real country it’s some BS region encroaching on 4 separate countries.
How long do we have to support their failed effort to form their own country?
The problem could be solved by releasing Little Miss Muffet.
Thanks CH, I needed that. LOL 😆
(cool mug, Setnaffa!)
Trying to mirror the two is a weak cover for what appears to be typical Trump bashing.
Putin pulling his punches.
Abū Bakr al-Baghdadi: Please Mr. Putin, let my people go …
https://www.foxnews.com/world/syria-isis-supporters-escape-camp-kurds
Sure, Jan…
In liberal land Russia is allied with ISIS.
I love how FOX is suddenly completely legit when it tells ’em what they want to hear.
If I were in charge of a prison camp full of ISIS prisoners, I wouldn’t run away before a bit of genocide.