ROK Drop Open Thread – April 19, 2015

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tbonetylr
tbonetylr
8 years ago

Tulsa cop office will pay(and city of Tulsa) big $$$ etc…after they get sued for letting(forging documents) a 73 old man CEO so-called deputy cop cheat(pay and buck the system) to play cop. EGGHEAD(Armchair Pro- killer cops/Anti-black defender while cop office chief(Walter Scott case) says “this is just wrong”) and setnaffa should visit Oklahoma.
‘Tulsa Cop Authorities Ordered Robert Bates’ Training Record Falsified: Report’
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/16/robert-bates-training-record-false_n_7078084.html
“The Tulsa County Sheriff’s office ordered supervisors to falsify the training record of the reserve deputy who fatally shot a suspect after mistaking his revolver for his Taser, sources told the Tulsa World.
Reserve deputy Robert C. Bates, 73, faces manslaughter charges after he allegedly mistook this revolver for a Taser and fatally shot a suspect in an undercover operation April 2.

From the Tulsa World:
[Supervisors at the Tulsa County Sheriff’s Office were ordered to falsify a reserve deputy’s training records, giving him credit for field training he never took and firearms certifications he should not have received, sources told the Tulsa World.]

The Sheriff’s Office denied that documents were falsified or that supervisors were reassigned because they wouldn’t sign off on Bates’ training.

This follows allegations that Bates got the reserve deputy position because he’d donated cars and computers, and contributed money to the sheriff’s election campaign. Former officers with the sheriff’s department told The Daily Beast that Bates, a wealthy insurance company CEO, was a “pay-to-play” cop who’d essentially bought his position with donations.

The sheriff’s office provided a list of courses that Bates was supposed to have completed as part of his training, but wouldn’t provide the names of the supervisors who signed off on them, according to CNN.

“You would think the sheriff’s office — if in fact there has been no pressure applied, no falsification of records — would be forthcoming with these documents,” Ziva Branstetter, a reporter at the Tulsa World, told CNN.

Sheriff’s office representatives told CNN Tuesday that Bates had 1,100 hours of community policing experience and 300 hours of training since he signed on as a reserve in 2008. He also belonged to the highest tier of unpaid volunteer reserve deputies, the Sheriff’s Office said.

…“This has happened a number of times around the country, I have read about it in the past,” Bates said.“I thought to myself after reading several cases, ‘I don’t understand how this could happen.’ You must believe me, it can happen to anyone.”

At one point in the eight minute interview, during which his daughters and wife rubbed his shoulders to console him, Bates, prompted by interviewer Matt Lauer, got up to show where he keeps his weapons while acting as a reserve deputy. The stun gun, he said, is kept in front, tucked into a jacket in a special holster. His revolver, he said, is kept on the right side of his belt “toward the rear.”

The April 2 incident was caught on the body camera of a Tulsa, Okla., sheriff’s deputy who was on top of Harris when the fatal shot rang out. Audio of the video catches Harris yell out, “taser, taser!” immediately before he fires.
“Oh, I shot him. I’m sorry,” Bates said as deputies continued to cuff and subdue Harris, who cried out in pain and yelled, “He shot me!” and said he can’t breathe.
Another cop shouts…”F*** your breath!

Sheriff could have waived training, official says
http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/17/us/tulsa-shooting-robert-bates/index.html
“Bates would also have needed firearms certification training.

Officials have yet to locate records showing what training Bates completed, said Maj. Shannon Clark of the sheriff’s office.

But Clark did say it’s possible that some training requirements may have been waived.

Sheriff Stanley Glanz has the authority to waive any department policies, Clark said.

“The policies within our organization are signed off by the sheriff, but there are also policies that give the sheriff the ability to waive any policy within our organization. That’s part of being a sheriff’s office,” Clark told the newspaper.

Glanz told KFAQ radio this week that officials can’t find records of Bates’ firearms certification.

The instructor who provided that training is now a U.S. Secret Service agent, and officials haven’t been able to locate training records she was supposed to have turned in, Glanz told the station.

Bates has donated equipment to the department and was also a donor to Glanz’s re-election campaign, leading to allegations he had essentially paid to be a cop.

He rejected that claim in the “Today” interview as “unbelievably unfair.”

Bates’ attorney, Clark Brewster, also has rejected the allegations of poor training or forgery as unfounded.

He said those making the accusations include fired sheriff’s office employees represented by the law firm that also represents Harris’ family.

“His training is extensive and certainly adequate,” Brewster told CNN on Thursday.

Harris’ brother, Andre Harris, said this week that he didn’t think the shooting was racially motivated. Instead, he said, “This is simply evil.”

But Bates,who is charged with second-degree manslaughter, said he didn’t mean to kill Harris. His attorney has called it an “excusable homicide.”

“I rate this as No. 1 on my list of things in my life that I regret,” said Bates, who is free on $25,000 bail.

The public was invited to a viewing for Harris at a Tulsa funeral home Saturday.”

ChickenHead
ChickenHead
8 years ago

Nope, tbone. I agree with you. This sounds pretty messed up.

tbonetylr
tbonetylr
8 years ago

Poor fella has an owie on his shoulder. Too bad for him, he didn’t even make it out of spring training. Elbows are much easier to diagnose and treat while shoulders are much more problematic. I say we won’t be seeing much of him this year, if at all.

March 23, 2015
http://m.mlb.com/news/article/114307292/dodgers-pitcher-hyun-jin-ryu-to-start-season-on-disabled-list
“GLENDALE, Ariz. — Dodgers starting pitcher Hyun-Jin Ryu was sent to Los Angeles on Sunday to have his injured left shoulder examined by Dr. Neal ElAttrache, and manager Don Mattingly conceded that the left-hander will start the season on the disabled list.
Ryu attempted to play catch Sunday, four days after receiving a cortisone injection for the type of shoulder stiffness that sidelined him twice last year, but the discomfort returned.
Mattingly said Ryu reported immediate improvement from the injection but was barely able to lob the ball during a brief session of catch.
“It wasn’t what we really wanted,” Mattingly said. “It wasn’t bad, but I think he was feeling something and we want to know more because we’re moving toward a heavy workload. I didn’t see him throw, but I saw him in [the trainer’s room] and saw the look on his face.”
Ryu complained of stiffness after his last start against Texas on Tuesday, when he was charged with three error-assisted runs in three innings, but his velocity barely reached 90 mph.
Last year he was on the disabled list from April 28-May 21 with left shoulder inflammation. He also didn’t pitch after a Sept. 12 start through the end of the regular season with the same ailment…,”

tbonetylr
tbonetylr
8 years ago

On the other Korean MLB front, I could’ve told anyone this. In fact, I probably did…

Shin-Soo Choo contract looks like long-term anvil that will be around Rangers’ neck for years to come
Published: 16 April 2015 12:59 AM
http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/texas-rangers/headlines/20150416-grant-shin-soo-choo-contract-looks-like-long-term-anvil-that-will-be-around-rangers-neck-for-years-to-come.ece
“SportsDay’s Texas Rangers insider Evan Grant hosted a chat Tuesday afternoon to talk all things baseball. Here are some of the highlights:
Question: What is the one trade/signing that happened or realistically could have happened / was close to happening that you wish the Rangers would have made / not made?
Grant: At this point, the deal that was made that doesn’t look good is Choo. He’s done nothing really well since he got here. He’s gotten on-base OK, but hasn’t hit for power at all, hasn’t run well and hasn’t defended well, either. Add a couple of injuries on to the front end of a seven-year deal and it looks like a long-term anvil that will be hanging around the club’s neck for years to come.”

tbonetylr
tbonetylr
8 years ago

6 Cops Slam Thabo Sefolosha to Ground, Breaking His Leg (Video)

Atlanta Hawks forward Thabo Sefolosha will miss the remainder of the season with a fractured tibia. Sefolosha has a nice case on his hands after video surfaced of six NYPD officers slamming him to the ground.

The reason Thabo Sefolosha broke his leg is because 6 cops basically chokeslammed him to the ground as you can see in this video provided by TMZ.

Before the video begins, Thabo’s teammate Pero Antic was already sitting on the curb — subdued by police for allegedly obstructing cops from investigating the Chris Copeland stabbing.
But when cops tried to corral Thabo, something went wrong — and a scuffle breaks out between the NBA player and 6 officers.
At one point during the struggle, you can see an officer reach out and grab Thabo by his neck … while two other officers help take the 6’7″, 220-pounder down to the ground.
Eventually, Thabo is placed in cuffs — and officers walk him down the street … while onlookers shout obscenities in French directed toward the police.
Moments ago, it was reported that Thabo suffered a fractured tibia in the melee and will miss the remainder of the season.

http://thacover2.com/2015/04/09/6-cops-slammed-thabo-sefolosha-to-ground-breaking-his-leg-video/

setnaffa
setnaffa
8 years ago

tbone would actually have credibility if he could refrain from his Tourette syndrome-like outbursts of racist attacks on people no one but him has apparently ever heard about.

And setnaffa has been to Oklahoma. Did not leave anything. No need to go back. But! While there, I made a point of NOT engaging in behavior that would cause a peace officer, paid or not, to need to pull any weapons… 😉

tbonetylr
tbonetylr
8 years ago

‘Michelle Manhart: Female Air Force Vet Arrested For Trying To Stop American Flag Protest’
http://www.inquisitr.com/2022491/michelle-manhart-female-air-force-vet-arrested-for-trying-to-stop-american-flag-protest/
Oh, so only she can desecrate the flag? She supposedly fought for Americans freedom but she decides what freedom of speech is/isn’t?

She was arrested and then let go? If she were black she could’ve died while in police custody/broken spine.

‘Freddie Gray: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know;
http://heavy.com/news/2015/04/freddie-gray-baltimore-dead-cause-of-death-in-police-custody-cops-arrest-details-van-protest-video/
“A 27-year-old Baltimore, Maryland man died Sunday after spending seven days in a coma as a result of injuries he suffered while in the custody of city police, the Baltimore Sun reports.

Freddie Gray was arrested April 12 by four officers outside a public housing complex. Police have not yet said why Gray was arrested. Police said four bicycle officers tried to stop Gray for an unspecified reason and he ran from them. They caught him and detained him while waiting for backup.

Bystanders captured the end of his arrest on cell phone video (watch it above) as he was loaded into a police transport van. An ambulance was called to the police station 30 minutes later to take Gray to a hospital.

Police said the video does not show any use of force by the officers, according to The Associated Press. Witnesses can be heard screaming at the officers, saying Gray’s legs looked broken as the officers dragged him to a transport vehicle.”

Here’s what you need to know:
1. Gray’s Spine Was ’80 Percent Severed’ at His Neck While in Police Custody
2. Police Have Said Only That Gray Was ‘Involved’ or ‘Recently Involved’ in ‘Criminal Activity’
3. Gray’s Family Has Accused Police of Covering-Up the Details of His Death
4. His Death Has Sparked Protests in Baltimore
5. The City Has Promised a Transparent Investigation Into Gray’s Death

ChickenHead
ChickenHead
8 years ago

“Freddie Gray was arrested April 12 by four officers outside a public housing complex.”

Who gives a fukk about Freddie Gray?

Once you choose to take public assistance, you become public property. I pay American taxes. I have a share in American public property. If I want to fukk Freddy Gray in the mouth, he is all mine. If cops, who also pay taxes, want to practice their beat-down tactics on him, that is their right. If we want to do it at the same time, this ranges from a simple gentleman’s agreement to a custody battle.

I think cops are pretty agreeable about these things… so we can make a deal where I two-hole him with a pleasant amount of resistance… as I like my male raape victims a bit coy… then they beat him into submission, and I get to put the starfish on whatever is left.

I am getting totally hard just thinking of this.

tbonetylr
tbonetylr
8 years ago

EGGHEAD says…”Once you choose to take public assistance, you become public property.”

So all students who receive college loans/grants could be killed by police because you don’t care? You’re clearly talking out your bunghole as usual. Since when do cops check whether so-called “suspects” after eye contact has been made check to see if he/she has ever received “public assistance” and how do you know whether Freddie Gray has ever received it?

EGGHEAD says…”I pay American taxes. I have a share in American public property.”

You ain’t no more special than any American citizen whether they pay taxes or not since you ain’t got no deed showing you own anything public. You’re such an EGGHEAD

EGGHEAD says…”Who gives a fukk about Freddie Gray?”

It’s a good thing that more people “give a fukk” about him than you, you good for nothing but bunghole talk EGGHEAD!!!

RIP Freddie Gray!!!

Pregnant wife of fired killer cop chooses to receive “public assistance.” Hmmm, is the city going to pay for anything for the victim?
http://nypost.com/2015/04/10/wife-of-cop-who-fatally-shot-unarmed-man-is-pregnant/
“Although Slager has been fired from the force, the city has said it will still cover the insurance costs of his wife’s delivery, a North Charleston city councilman announced in a local news column.

The pregnant wife of the cop charged in the fatal shooting of an unarmed black man(Walter Scott) in South Carolina has spent the past few months preparing for their first child.”

Leon LaPorte
Leon LaPorte
8 years ago

Been out of the loop for a while. I see everything is going along as normal here.

setnaffa
setnaffa
8 years ago

In other notes, are there actual webpages for the touristy shops outside K-55? Or do the signs represent something that never was?

setnaffa
setnaffa
8 years ago
tbonetylr
tbonetylr
8 years ago

Clinton Cash Author Peter Schweizer’s Long History Of Errors, Retractions, And Questionable Sourcing
http://mediamatters.org/research/2015/04/20/clinton-cash-author-peter-schweizers-long-histo/203209
Media should be cautious with Republican activist and strategist Peter Schweizer’s new book Clinton Cash. Schweizer has a disreputable history of reporting marked by errors and retractions, with numerous reporters excoriating him for facts that “do not check out,” sources that “do not exist,” and a basic failure to practice “Journalism 101.”

Members of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, which includes Mr. Paul and Senator Marco Rubio of Florida, have been briefed on the book’s findings, and its contents have already made their way into several of the Republican presidential candidates’ campaigns.

Conservative “super PACs” plan to seize on “Clinton Cash,” and a pro-Democrat super PAC has already assembled a dossier on Mr. Schweizer, a speechwriting consultant to former President George W. Bush and a fellow at the conservative Hoover Institution who has contributed to the conservative website Breitbart.com, to make the case that he has a bias against Mrs. Clinton. [New York Times, 4/19/15]

Cause For Concern: 10 Incidents Of Significant Errors, Retractions, Or Questionable Sourcing By Schweizer. Reporters and fact checkers have excoriated Schweizer for massive factual problems over the years. A Media Matters analysis found at least 10 separate incidents in which the media called out Schweizer for botching his reporting.

The following is how reporters have described Schweizer’s work: “Incorrect,” “inaccurate,” “bogus,” “a fatal shortcoming in Journalism 101,” “the facts didn’t stand up,” “unfair and inaccurate,” “specious argument,” “there was nothing there,” “suspicious,” “the facts don’t fit,” facts “do not check out,” sources “do not exist or cannot be tracked down,” “confusion and contradiction,” “discrepancies,” “admitted a mistake,” “neither journalism nor history,” “a polemic so unchecked … that we can’t tell the fact from the fiction,” sources “have clearly used him,” and “tacitly conced[ed] he was wrong.”

Fox’s Karl Rove Lauds Disreputable Author Of Clinton Smear Book: “He Has Got A Good Reputation As A Conscientious Researcher”
http://mediamatters.org/video/2015/04/20/foxs-karl-rove-lauds-disreputable-author-of-cli/203347
Rove: “Peter Schweizer Is A Very Meticulous Detail Oriented Person”

tbonetylr
tbonetylr
8 years ago

Inkster officer in video beating charged with 2 felonies
Floyd Dent(57 and black-OH NO!) cocaine charge dismissed which means Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy believes Inkster Police Officer William Melendez planted the drugs(as seen on video) on Mr. Dent.

AND NO EGGHEAD, Floyd Dent never had to(in your book) “stop immediately.” As usual EGGHEAD, you were wrong defending racist cops.

http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/wayne/2015/04/20/fired-inkster-cop/26067097/
“A former Inkster police officer caught on video punching a motorist now faces felony charges while the case against the man he arrested will be dismissed “in the best interest of justice.”

Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy made the announcement Monday while revealing charges against William Melendez.

He was charged with misconduct in office for mistreatment of a prisoner, a five-year felony, and assault with intent to do great bodily harm less than murder, a 10-year felony, according to the prosecutor’s office. Melendez, 46, has been fired from his police jobs in Inkster and Highland Park, city officials said.”

Andy
Andy
8 years ago

South Korea to punish firms who bowed to North’s wage pressure.

Seoul (AFP) – South Korea said Tuesday it would punish three factory owners for bowing to North Korean pressure in a wage dispute over workers at the Kaesong joint industrial zone.

The North unilaterally announced in February a wage hike for the more than 50,000 North Korean workers employed by South Korean firms operating in Kaesong, just north of the inter-Korean border.

South Korea demurred, insisting that under a previous accord, employment conditions in the zone could only be adjusted with the agreement of both sides.

As the row intensified, the Seoul government ordered the firms not to yield to pressure, but the South’s Unification Ministry said three companies had paid the increased wage.

http://news.yahoo.com/south-korea-punish-firms-bowed-norths-wage-pressure-022637354–finance.html

Setnaffa
Setnaffa
8 years ago

Tbone, please do not take this the wrong way; but the fact is that resisting arrest can be fatal for ANYONE.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2524083/Chris-Carter-pictured-The-mean-campus-police-officer-shot-killed-straight-A-student-23-asked-You-gonna-shoot-me.html

tbonetylr
tbonetylr
8 years ago

“but the fact is that resisting arrest can be fatal for ANYONE.”

Wow setnaffa, you’re freakin brilliant(NOT). Did you know that smoking tobacco, walking across the street, etc…can also get you killed? Why did you provide a link to such a DUH comment? Am I suppose to search through the article you linked for a similar DUH sentence? I must commend you though for providing a link unlike your bunghole lick BLAH BLAH BLAH EGGHEAD…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss2hULhXf04

JoeC
JoeC
8 years ago

While it IS legal to film cops in all 50 States, be aware you are dealing with armed men and women, some of whom have anger issues.

tbonetylr
tbonetylr
8 years ago

No felony running in Freddie Gray case…
‘6 Baltimore Police Officers Suspended’
http://www.pressreader.com/usa/the-washington-post/20150421/281496454822066/TextView
“In a brief court document justifying the arrest, officers wrote that Gray fled unprovoked upon noticing police presence.” Only after officers chased Freddie Gray down did they report finding a switch blade in his front pants pocket, which prompted his arrest.

Attorney William H. “Billy” Murphy(Freddie Gray family lawyer) called it an illegal take-down,” saying: There is no such thing as felony running.”

setnaffa
setnaffa
8 years ago

I guess walking across the street is dangerous for some folks… but you’re a bit like a rabid dog these days, tbone, lashing out at people who really aren’t your enemies…

What was it that caused you to be so bitter and full of hate?

tbonetylr
tbonetylr
8 years ago

Old death penalty concoction(lethal injection protocol-3 drugs) invented in Oklahoma(used in America) is now practically out but a new gassing method invented in Oklahoma is almost in. It’s back to the gas chamber! No doctors/scientists were used to determine/persuade Oklahoma house lawmakers of whether this new nitrogen gas method is humane, only Youtube videos of people breathing in too much helium and pilots passing out from a lack of oxygen. Nonetheless, it passed unanimously.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/03/can-executions-be-more-humane/388249/
“This isn’t Oklahoma’s first time engineering new execution methods. The modern lethal-injection protocol was first proposed by an Oklahoma state medical examiner named Jay Chapman in 1977. But Copeland, who spends most of his time teaching criminal justice policy, procedure, and research methods, has no background in medicine. This is his first foray into execution technologies.

Michael Copeland(former Assistant Attorney General of the tiny Pacific island nation of Palau, professor of criminal justice at East Central University in Ada, Oklahoma & close friend/former classmate of State GOP Representative Mike Christian) says…nitrogen-induced hypoxia is well-researched, although the ideal delivery system for an execution has not yet been established.

Since the botched execution of Clayton Lockett last April, Oklahoma’s death row has been in the national spotlight. Lockett died forty-three minutes after the process began—far longer than a typical lethal injection—and appeared to writhe in pain. The Supreme Court is now reviewing the state’s lethal-injection protocol to determine whether or not it is humane. Meanwhile, three scheduled executions in the state have been postponed.

Copeland says that conditions for lethal-injection executions will only get worse. States are scrambling to find the drugs and the health professionals to use them, and both are required for lethal injection to take place. “You have anti-death penalty zealots around the globe that protest, that bring attention to the manufacturers of these drugs,” Oklahoma Attorney General Scott Pruitt told a local chamber of commerce last summer. Pruitt said that as long as activists pressure manufacturers, there will be supply issues.

As more drug manufacturers create end-user agreements that prevent states from using their drugs for executions, departments of corrections are searching for other ways to carry out death sentences. The situation is acute. Last week, Akorn became the latest drug company to make rules about how certain drugs are used, South Carolina announced it had run out of drugs, and Texas said it had only one dose of pentobarbital remaining.

Oklahoma is not alone in its quest for new execution methods. The electric chair is Tennessee’s new backup method, while Utah will use the firing squad if lethal injection is not possible. Other states, including Louisiana and Oklahoma, are researching methods involving gas. According to the Death Penalty Information Center, four states have gas chambers as backups to lethal injection: Arizona, California, Missouri, and Wyoming.

Other death-penalty experts are more skeptical. “It’s only been partially vetted, superficially researched, and has never been tried,” said Richard Dieter, executive director of the Death Penalty Information Center. “Using it would be an experiment on human subjects.” State death rows would be strapping someone down without any idea what would happen next, he feared.

“We’d need testimony from the best experts on this,” Dieter says. “Right now, this is sailing through a legislature and not a peer-review process. I’m no doctor, but let’s hear from them.

If the bill becomes law and Oklahoma successfully executes someone using this method, it could spread from to state very quickly, Dieter says. Older methods like firing squads are a little too brutal for the American public, but something new could be accepted. If so, he says, “it could lead to an awkward spurt of executions.”

Christine C. Pappas, one of Copeland’s co-researchers, echoes this point. In an email exchange, she said that if the Supreme Court invalidates lethal injection as an execution method, it would not necessarily mean the end of the death penalty. States could find other ways to kill. “If we are to have the death penalty, which is something that Oklahomans really want, I believe it should be as painless as possible,” she argues. Pappas is opposed to capital punishment and says she’s faced criticism from abolitionists who think she’s in league with death-penalty advocates.

“What’s missing is the question of whether or not we should be executing people at all,” said Ryan Kiesel, the executive director of the Oklahoma ACLU and a former three-term member of the state House of Representatives. He argues that the state legislature is missing the big picture. “Instead, we’re having this bizarre academic exercise with professors playing doctors dressed up as executioners. Behind all of those masks, there’s no legitimate expertise to help legislators consider this method.”

ChickenHead
ChickenHead
8 years ago

Consumer products are so potentially deadly they need detailed warning labels for the most ridiculous reasons.

Racist white cops kill innocent black gentle giants and aspiring rappers every day with simple choke holds.

Concealed semi-automatic large caliber assault cop-killer high-capacity folding stock handgun Saturday-night-special carbine rifles are such a threat that politicians are always looking to ban them.

Any number of USFK members and Koreans died from carbon monoxide poisoning back when charcoal was the primary fuel for heat and hot water… and a ghetto family or two die in the States from it every year trying to have an indoor BBQ or cheaper heat.

Bathtubs kill people daily.

…yet there needs to be a debate about how to carry out the death penalty?

There is no necessity for a complex process.

In the simplest form. hanging, beheading, or a bullet to the head are quick, painless, reliable, and time-tested…

…though possibly messy… and perhaps distasteful to the sensibilities of some…

….though anybody worried about the mess probably shouldn’t be calling for the death penalty anyway.

What debate or “study” or lack of knowledge can there be about nitrogen? Its effects in everything from aviation to diving to industrial accidents are well-known.

If you give somebody nitrogen without oxygen, they don’t notice. They just pass out. If they stay in the oxygen-free environment, they eventually die. If there is some doubt about when they die, leave them in the nitrogen environment for a few days. If they wake up from that, give them a conditional pardon and let them be a test subject for a whole new branch of medicine.

“What’s missing is the question of whether or not we should be executing people at all”

That is a reasonable thing to consider. While the death penalty is very, very satisfying for a certain class of criminal, there may be some philosophical issues about the right or necessity of the State to kill a citizen… especially when there are other methods to remove them from society or punish them for their crimes… and perhaps even allow society to benefit from their presence.

An argument can be made that Charles Manson has benefited society more by living than if he had been put to death 40 years ago. If anybody chooses to take an opposing side in this thought exercise, I will attempt to support this idea.

Liz
Liz
8 years ago

He’d have been a martyr if he was put to death, likely spawning a bigger cult of followers.

ChickenHead
ChickenHead
8 years ago

– Putting him to death might have raised him to some level of iconic status based on an idealist fantasy of his image. Instead, he has consistently discredited himself with decades of his irrational thinking and behavior… making him an icon… of ridicule. This likely prevented the emergence of potential copycats who find less glamor in slow deterioration than a blaze of glory.

– On the flip-side of being martyred, is being forgotten. He has served as a generational reminder that society will investigate, capture, and contain those like him. While this may or may not act as a deterrent to potential crazy cultists, it is a comfort to society to be reminded the system sometimes works.

– His entertainment value has been a good return on investment compared to many other public expenditures.

While it can certainly be argued that it would have been cheaper to execute him than keep him as society’s mangy pet, keep in mind the cost of many career non-violent criminals is more… the costs of law enforcement, investigations, court time, transportation, jail, post-jail services, and the cost to society of constant crimes… many of which are never brought to justice… not to mention that many career criminals reproduce, at public expense, and form a new generation of career criminals.

So… relatively speaking, keeping Manson alive is not too expensive… he is currently harmless and his presence serves far more purpose than so many other lesser criminals whose deaths would serve an immediate benefit to society.

tbonetylr
tbonetylr
8 years ago

Angry Rap Mix Blasts Police ~ My most recent favorite song ‘La Policia’ by Kap-G

My favorite line…
“Now I don’t got a Bentley, just in my hyundai car”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvNUoX1odYg
[Hook]
You see the cops pulled me over
The cops pulled me over, aye
Now I’m just riding with my migos
Riding with my migos, aye
I’m screaming f*** la policia
F*** la policia, aye
I be like f*** la policia
F*** la policia, aye
[Verse 1]
Now I don’t got a Bentley, just in my hyundai car
And I know what you thinking, think I got no green card
Man f****** ’round with ya’ll I’m ’boutta hit that bay line
Think I push work now he bringing out the canine
They trying to lock us up, always riding on our block
Think I work at chop shops, no this ain’t a ?
Cause I’m Mexican yeah on some young migo s***
Trying to search in my whip trying to find some f****** bricks
And my uncle he illegal, my uncle he illegal, aye
And I can’t f*** with la migra, can’t f*** with la migra, aye
[Hook]
[Verse 2]
So the cops pulled me over say, “the windows too tinted”
Basically saying that my migos ain’t from here
I don’t give them two minutes, I get my ticket and leave
Think I got no I.D like the migo made ?
And my bro tatted up they think he MS13
No he bang Latin Kingz, they trying to go lock him in
And all this happened last night, I don’t your advice
I don’t got my pistol on me quit flashing your flashlight
Where your license registration? My license registration, aye
Trying to sent me to the f****** immigration, the f****** immigration, aye
[Hook]

tbonetylr
tbonetylr
8 years ago

“So… relatively speaking, keeping Manson alive is not too expensive…he is currently harmless …”

Considering he didn’t actually kill anyone himself, his age, and years already served perhaps he should be released if not for anything less but for entertainment(especially for Hollywood and the Beatles).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8SImoLm_UI

He or anyone else should not be used as human subjects in the Oklahoma new(botched) kill method as planned.

tbonetylr
tbonetylr
8 years ago

Black Cyclists Targeted in Tampa Bay, Florida…
‘Report: Tampa Cops Targeting Black Cyclists’
http://gawker.com/report-tampa-cops-targeting-black-cyclists-1698667438
“After conducting an analysis of more than 10,000 bicycle tickets issued by the Tampa police over the past 12 years, the Tampa Bay Times has found that 79 percent of those ticketed are black. Blacks make up about a quarter of the city’s population, the Times reports.

According to the Times, Tampa police have written 2,504 bike tickets—more than Jacksonville, Miami, St. Petersburg, and Orlando combined—in the past three years:”

ChickenHead
ChickenHead
8 years ago

– Many (most?) bicyclists are diicks… claiming a right to the roadway even if they slow traffic for tens or hundreds of other roadway users… and demanding to be treated like a car or a pedestrian depending on what is best for them at the moment… with no concern with what is best for everyone around them.

– Many blacks have a thing for obstructing the flow of traffic and being a general irritant to the productive public… perhaps for attention or a show of power in an otherwise powerless life. Youtube has plenty of examples of this… posted for the purpose of bragging.

Combine these two attitudes, and it is a magnet for police attention.

– Many blacks openly reject authority even when they are wrong and authority is right.

Add this into the mix, and instead of “Yes, officer. No, officer,” they get, “Mup da doo didda po mo gub bidda be dat tum muhfugen bix nood.”

Ticket.

So these statistics are not surprising.

Considering the trouble Tbone has caused himself by mouthing off to authority in much the same way (when he was repeatedly wrong) you would think he would understand this.

tbonetylr
tbonetylr
8 years ago

Oklahoma new death penalty or “Killing with Kindness” comes form a writer(screen writer), with Slate Magazine. This screen writer invented the new nitrogen capitol punishment kill method(soon to be used in many and/or all USA states given how they all adapted to the last Oklahoma kill/3 drug protocol death penalty method which likely will lead to Nebraska next followed by a slew of other states? If they planned on using test subjects(which they don’t), I wish EGGHEAD could be used as subject #1 knowing/common sense wise that there should always be subjects(other than human) used for the death penalty.

The Dawn of a New Form of Capital Punishment
Why Oklahoma became the first state to approve nitrogen gas as a lethal injection alternative
http://time.com/3749879/nitrogen-gas-execution-oklahoma-lethal-injection/
“About a year ago, Oklahoma Rep. Mike Christian, who attended high school with Copeland, asked his old friend for ideas on how to replace the increasingly problematic method of lethal injection. After studying the issue, Copeland recommended death by nitrogen, a method that has never been used for a state-sanctioned killing in the U.S.

Nevertheless, Oklahoma has embraced the idea. On Friday, Gov. Mary Fallin, a Republican, signed a bill into law, based on Copeland’s research, that would make nitrogen asphyxiation the state’s execution method if lethal injection is ruled unconstitutional or the necessary drugs are no longer available. The law marks a new frontier in the increasingly charged debate over the future of capital punishment in America. And it ensured that the state where lethal injection originated three decades ago has resumed its place as the nation’s execution laboratory.

The American Medical Association’s ethical guidelines require that “physicians can only certify death, provided that the condemned has been declared dead by another person,” according to spokesman R.J. Mills. The association does not have a position on the Oklahoma bill.

Despite the unanswered questions, more states appear to be considering nitrogen as they plan for a future without lethal injection. Copeland says he has been in touch with corrections officials in several states, some of which he says are “ahead of us in terms of protocol.” Copeland would not disclose the states.”

In September, Copeland presented his findings to the Oklahoma House Judiciary Committee. His presentation included YouTube videos of people passing out from too much helium, another inert gas. Pilots testified about experiencing hypoxia, describing the gradual decrease of oxygen as undetectable, and Copeland claims the effects with nitrogen would be similar.

“We have a lot of parallels,” Copeland says. “We’ve just never used [nitrogen] in this context.”

Changing the context could prove problematic. Administrating the gas within a prison is much different than the instances in which pilots and divers have slowly and accidentally experienced a lack of oxygen. Dr. Michael Weiden, a pulmonary expert at NYU School of Medicine, says that while nitrogen could be administered without medical professionals, using it for capital punishment could create an ironic consequence: the need for sedation.

The American Medical Association’s ethical guidelines require that “physicians can only certify death, provided that the condemned has been declared dead by another person,” according to spokesman R.J. Mills. The association does not have a position on the Oklahoma bill.

Despite the unanswered questions, more states appear to be considering nitrogen as they plan for a future without lethal injection.”

ChickenHead
ChickenHead
8 years ago

– This doesn’t need more testing. There have been over a hundred years of documented scientific study on this issue. The effects are well-known and they are managed on a daily basis in many industries.

– Oxygen deprivation (without noticeable carbon dioxide content) is a very clean and humane death.

– While it is a duty to certify a death, doctors should never take a life.

Bonus: The War on Drugs must have a bunch of hot heroin lying around… though that might be a rewarding way to go.

tbonetylr
tbonetylr
8 years ago

“This doesn’t need more testing.”

But it’s never been done before you EGGHEAD(Hahaha/LOL)!!!

Are you a screen writer, doctor, scientist, or just an EGGHEAD?

EGGHEAD says…”Many (most?) bicyclists are diicks”

If you knew how to ride and were capable of riding(since you don’t you know nothing of bicyclists) along the same path as me I’d kick you to the side when I passed you and then stop to ask how you were and what you were going to do about it to which you’d only whimper by saying…Nothing sir Tbone, thank you sir Tbone, leave me alone please sir Tbone!!! Then I’d leave you in your favorite last place of your human centipede licking/eating bunghole pies to survive.

EGGHEAD says…”Considering the trouble Tbone has caused himself by mouthing off to authority…”

Do you have any evidence of me “mouthing off to authority” you EGGHEAD?

tbonetylr
tbonetylr
8 years ago

The screen writer/next/new inventor of death penalty method(by nitrogen gas) is…Stuart Creque @ about 17th minute of 21 or so…
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/execution-by-nitrogen-a-potential-new-model–432567875883

ChickenHead
ChickenHead
8 years ago

“But it’s never been done before you EGGHEAD(Hahaha/LOL)!!!”

Herr Döktor Sigmund Rascher might disagree… but since his test subjects were only “Poles and Russians”, the results might not apply to Real Mericans… ‘specially the black ones who will be inevitably be getting Nitrogened a lot more due to racism or whatever.

So perhaps you are right. There DOES need to be more testing…

…with cutting edge Affirmative Action policies in place?

“Are you a screen writer, doctor, scientist, or just an EGGHEAD?”

Three of the four.

“If you knew how to ride and were capable of riding”

Gosh, I have been able to ride a bike since kindergarten… like pretty much every other kid I ever met. What could your point possibly be? Of course I ride mine with the seat on.

“(since you don’t you know nothing of bicyclists) ”

At least I ain’t don’t not know nothing about English.

“Do you have any evidence of me “mouthing off to authority” you EGGHEAD?”

In a manner of speaking, I do. I found you were arrested for something so stupid that the only conclusion which can be drawn is that, instead of, “Yes, officer” and “No, officer”, you said, “But… but… but”. This is somewhat confirmed by the video of you indignantly huffing and puffing when you got evicted from the apartment you were squatting in… and a video your hogwon boss took when you were whining around there.

Tbone, this nitrogen thing is a non-issue… likely stirred up by those who disagree with the death penalty… as, with two thirds of Americans supporting the death penalty, outright calls for its ending will get no traction… so, as with gun control tactics, it has to be chiseled away with manufactured doubt and appeals to fake science.

If you want to be a man, stop puzzyfooting through this nonsense and simply say you don’t believe in the death penalty… and why. There are some very good reasons for having no death penalty… and presenting them well will build you more respect than claiming the effects of oxygen deprivation are unknown.

Liz
Liz
8 years ago

CH: “- Putting him to death might have raised him to some level of iconic status based on an idealist fantasy of his image. Instead, he has consistently discredited himself with decades of his irrational thinking and behavior… making him an icon… of ridicule. This likely prevented the emergence of potential copycats who find less glamor in slow deterioration than a blaze of glory.

– On the flip-side of being martyred, is being forgotten. He has served as a generational reminder that society will investigate, capture, and contain those like him. While this may or may not act as a deterrent to potential crazy cultists, it is a comfort to society to be reminded the system sometimes works.”

That’s true for crazy cult leaders. I’m not sure it’s true for the typical criminal death row though.
Couldn’t a similar argument be made that it was a good thing OJ Simpson got off for murder one?

ChickenHead
ChickenHead
8 years ago

Of course, as promised, I was only making an argumemt for Charles Manson specifically and not Death Row inmates generally.

Of course it was good that OJ got off. There were threats to repeat the Rodney King riots if he was convicted.

Black Appeasement works.

Leon LaPorte
Leon LaPorte
8 years ago

I agree with CH, no further oxygen deprivation experiments are necessary. The Nazi’s did all the leg work for us and even gave us their head man after the war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubertus_Strughold

Liz
Liz
8 years ago

Well, then, all’s well that ends well. 😛

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